TED Talk >> Rebecca Saxe: How we read each other's minds
So, the job of my field of cognitive neuroscience is to stand with these ideas, one in each hand. And to try to understand how you can put together simple units, simple messages over space and time, in a network, and get this amazing human capacity to think about minds. So I'm going to tell you three things about this today. Obviously the whole project here is huge. And I'm going to tell you just our first few steps about the discovery of a special brain region for thinking about other people's thoughts. Some observations on the slow development of this system as we learn how to do this difficult job. And then finally, to show that some of the differences between people, in how we judge others, can be explained by differences in this brain system.
我工作的領域是認知神經(jīng)科學，就是研究每一個人的這些想法。然后嘗試如何在網(wǎng)絡中，將簡單的單元，簡單的信息，不受到時間和空間的限制，組合在一起，得到這些人類思考的能力。我接下來要和大家談三個這方面的事情。很明顯，這樣的一個項目非常龐大。我談到的只是幾個我們研究的最初階段，有關于發(fā)現(xiàn)大腦中用于思考的區(qū)域。另外一些是觀察這個機制是如何慢慢發(fā)展起來。因為我們要學習如何去完成這份困難的任務。最后，為了展現(xiàn)人與人之間的差別，我們?nèi)绾闻袛嗨?，可以通過這個大腦系統(tǒng)的差異來解釋。
So first, the first thing I want to tell you is that there is a brain region in the human brain, in your brains, whose job it is to think about other people's thoughts. This is a picture of it. It's called the Right Temporo-Parietal Junction. It's above and behind your right ear. And this is the brain region you used when you saw the pictures I showed you, or when you read Romeo and Juliet or when you tried to understand Alan Greenspan. And you don't use it for solving any other kinds of logical problems. So this brain region is called the Right TPJ. And this picture shows the average activation in a group of what we call typical human adults. They're MIT undergraduates.
那么首先，第一個和大家講述的是，在人類的大腦中有一個區(qū)域，這個區(qū)域的任務就是去思考別人是如何思考的。這里是一張關于它的圖片，我們稱它為右顳頂聯(lián)合。它大概就在你右耳的后上方。當你看到我向你展示的照片，或者當你讀羅密歐與朱麗葉，或者當你試圖理解Alan Greenspan時，這就是你所使用的大腦區(qū)域。 但你不會使用它來解決任何邏輯推理的問題。我們稱這塊腦區(qū)域為RTPJ。這張圖片顯示了一組典型成人的RTPJ的平均激活情況，它們是MIT的本科生。
The second thing I want to say about this brain system is that although we human adults are really good at understanding other minds, we weren't always that way. It takes children a long time to break into the system. I'm going to show you a little bit of that long, extended process. The first thing I'm going to show you is a change between age three and five, as kids learn to understand that somebody else can have beliefs that are different from their own. So I'm going to show you a five-year-old who is getting a standard kind of puzzle that we call the false belief task.
關于這個大腦系統(tǒng)我想說的第二件事是，盡管我們成人怎的很擅長去理解他人的想法，但我們并不總是這樣。小孩需要很長的一段時間才能開啟這個系統(tǒng)。我將向您展示這段漫長的過程。先要演示的是3歲的孩子與5歲孩子的變化。因為孩子要學會去理解別人可以有不同于自己的想法。先看下一個5歲大的孩子，他面臨一個標準的謎題，我們稱之為為“錯誤的信念任務”。
Rebecca Saxe: This is the first pirate. His name is Ivan. And you know what pirates really like?
Child: What?
RS: Pirates really like cheese sandwiches.
Child: Cheese? I love cheese!
RS: Yeah. So Ivan has this cheese sandwich, and he says, "Yum yum yum yum yum! I really love cheese sandwiches." And Ivan puts his sandwich over here, on top of the pirate chest. And Ivan says, "You know what? I need a drink with my lunch." And so Ivan goes to get a drink. And while Ivan is away the wind comes, and it blows the sandwich down onto the grass. And now, here comes the other pirate. This pirate is called Joshua. And Joshua also really loves cheese sandwiches. So Joshua has a cheese sandwich and he says, "Yum yum yum yum yum! I love cheese sandwiches." And he puts his cheese sandwich over here on top of the pirate chest.
Child: So, that one is his.
RS: That one is Joshua's. That's right.
Child: And then his went on the ground.
RS: That's exactly right.
Child: So he won't know which one is his.
RS: Oh. So now Joshua goes off to get a drink. Ivan comes back and he says, "I want my cheese sandwich." So which one do you think Ivan is going to take?
Child: I think he is going to take that one.
RS: Yeah, you think he's going to take that one? All right. Let's see. Oh yeah, you were right. He took that one.
Rebecca Saxe：這是第一個海盜，名字叫做Ivan，你知道海盜最喜歡什么嗎？
Child：什么？
RS：海盜最喜歡乳酪三明治
Child：乳酪？我愛吃乳酪。
RS：對的！那么Ivan有這個乳酪三明治。然后他說著“嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯！我最愛乳酪三明治"。然后Ivan把他的三明治放在這里，一個海盜箱子的上面，然后Ivan又說“你知道不，我要為午餐去弄點喝的”。然后Ivan離開去取喝的。當Ivan離開的時候，一陣風掛來，把三明治吹到了草地上。這時候，又來了另外一個海盜，這個海盜叫做Joshua。當然Joshua也一樣很喜歡乳酪三明治。Joshua也有一個乳酪三明治。然后他說 “嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯！我愛乳酪三明治”。接著他把他的乳酪三明治放到了這個海盜箱的上面。
Child：這個就是他的。
RS：那個是Joshua的。對極了！
Child：Ivan的掉到了地上。
RS：完全正確。
Child：他不會知道哪個是他自己的。
RS：喔，那現(xiàn)在Joshua離開去喝酒了。Ivan回來，他說“我要我的乳酪三明治?！澳悄阏J為Ivan將會拿走哪一個呢？
child：我認為他會拿走那一個
RS：耶，你認為他會拿走這個吧？對極了。我們看看，哦，你猜對了。他拿走了那個。
So that's a five-year-old who clearly understands that other people can have false beliefs and what the consequences are for their actions. Now I'm going to show you a three-year-old who got the same puzzle.
對于一個5歲大的孩子，已經(jīng)可以清晰的理解，別人可能會有錯誤的想法，以及他們的行為會帶來什么后果?，F(xiàn)在我給你看下一個三歲大的孩子，他也碰到相同的謎題。
RS: And Ivan says, "I want my cheese sandwich." Which sandwich is he going to take? Do you think he's going to take that one? Let's see what happens. Let's see what he does. Here comes Ivan. And he says, "I want my cheese sandwich." And he takes this one. Uh-oh. Why did he take that one?
Child: His was on the grass.
RS：Ivan說，“我想要我的乳酪三明治”。他會拿那個走呢？你認為他會拿走那個嗎？我們看下會發(fā)生什么。Ivan來啦。他說，“我要我的乳酪三明治”，接著他拿走了這一個，噢。他為什么要拿那個啊？
child：他的掉在了草地上了
So the three-year-old does two things differently. First, he predicts Ivan will take the sandwich that's really his. And second, when he sees Ivan taking the sandwich where he left his, where we would say he's taking that one because he thinks it's his, the three-year-old comes up with another explanation: He's not taking his own sandwich because he doesn't want it, because now it's dirty, on the ground. So that's why he's taking the other sandwich. Now of course, development doesn't end at five. And we can see the continuation of this process of learning to think about other people's thoughts by upping the ante and asking children now, not for an action prediction, but for a moral judgment. So first I'm going to show you the three-year-old again.
因此，三歲大的孩子做了兩件不同的事情。第一個是他認定Ivan會帶走那個真正是他的三明治。第二，當他看到Ivan從他放三明治的地方拿走三明治時，我們會認為Ivan會拿走那一個，因為他認為那個是他的。但是三歲大的孩子會有另外一種解釋，Ivan不拿走真正屬于他三文治，是他不想要，因為它現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)掉在地上臟了，所以這是為什他拿走另外的三明治。當然，智力的發(fā)展不是在5歲時候就結束了。我們可以看到去學習理解他人想法的，是一個持續(xù)的過程。伴隨著增加賭注，接著我問小孩子們，不去預測行為，而是對道德的判斷。再給大家看下三歲大的孩子的情況。
RS: So is Ivan being mean and naughty for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Yeah.
RS: Should Ivan get in trouble for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Yeah.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他是不是吝嗇又頑皮？
child：是的
RS：Ivan拿了Joshua的三明治，會不會惹上麻煩？
child：是的
So it's maybe not surprising he thinks it was mean of Ivan to take Joshua's sandwich, since he thinks Ivan only took Joshua's sandwich to avoid having to eat his own dirty sandwich. But now I'm going to show you the five-year-old. Remember the five-year-old completely understood why Ivan took Joshua's sandwich.
因此，他認為Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治，Ivan是吝嗇又頑皮的時候，我們毫不驚訝。因為他認為Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治，是因為他不想吃他那個已經(jīng)弄臟的三明治。現(xiàn)在我給大家看下5歲的孩子的情況。還記得5歲大的孩子完全能理解，Ivan為什么拿走Joshua的三明治吧。
RS: Was Ivan being mean and naughty for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Um, yeah.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他是不是吝嗇又頑皮？
child：是的。
And so, it is not until age seven that we get what looks more like an adult response.
直到7歲時，我們才會看到更像是成年人的反應。
RS: Should Ivan get in trouble for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: No, because the wind should get in trouble.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他會不會遇到麻煩？
Child：不會，因為是風惹的。
Question
- What did Saxe learn from the experiment?
> The seven-year-old demonstrated an adult-like moral judgment. - Which of the statements about the three boys' experiment is true?
> The 7-year-old had developed a sense of moral judgment similar to an adult's. - Which of the following is a moral judgment?
> He is a mean and selfish man
